St. Maarten Private Eye

This situation is mind boggling and it must be horrible for Joel's family - I can not imagine what it is like - why isnt there at least someone stepping up and offering to go in there to discover the truth and willing to perform this task and be compensated later? I have known Joel for many years. As a neighbor, I saw how he loved his daughter and loved life. How can it be that in his time of need, so much time can just seep away - I think it is an excellent point that if he is there, any facts of what happened will slowly vanish - regardless of how it happened. Why has a lack of money determined this - money can be managed later - get him and get the information that will tell us all what has happened while it is still there- find out if he is really there in that ravine so the family can know - When these rescue/ recovery teams go to distant countries where there was a disaster - who pays for that - the people that are trembling with fear -NO- I dont know how it works, but it is usually very quick - so the country must pay, right? Is it a good tourism policy of any country (or island) to portray that if there is a serious problem such as this, its up to you and your loved ones to figure it out. I dont know - I would like to believe that if a person from another Country was snowboarding in Colorado and went off a ravine or cliff, that local authorities would activate a major search immediately and search ...and search until nothing is found and they must give up or a recovery occurs. Seems to me like it would - in fact, it seems to me that it always does - so why is this any different? Maybe I am missing something here. Please tell me.

I guess Saba has pretty much washed their hands on Joel Gove. Nothing we can say will help. We can talk ourselves blue and it won't do any good or help Joel Goves family. Times like this let's other see how dangerous it is to venture outside of the USA. You are basically on your own.

It's up to the family now to figure out a way to remove his remains from the side of Saba's cliffs. If the family can't get the help and if Joel's remains are on the side of the cliff, that is where his remains will stay, sadly. It will be his last resting place.

I can't believe Saba is so heartless to do this to a human being. Where are his human rights? To let a body just sit on the side of a cliff because this person is not a Saban citizen. Unbelievable!

I don't think you understand that Saba is simply not equipped to retrieve Mr Gove and without aid from Holland, does not have the MEANS to acquire the people and equipment to do so. Even if it was a Saban or Dutch citizen in that ravine, I'm afraid that the situation would be the same. Would you prefer that someone on Saba risk their life, since they don't have the right training or gear, to go into the ravine and retrieve him? I don't see how this is any different than the many bodies that cannot be retrieved from places like Mt Hood or Mt Raineer for the same reason - It's TOO DANGEROUS.
You wrote 'Times like this let's other see how dangerous it is to venture outside of the USA. ' I think that is quite wrong. It is equally dangerous to go hiking in the Rockies and Cascades, as it is to go hiking on Saba. Hikers lose their lives in those mountains every year. How exactly is this different?

The difference is in the Rockies out of Tennessee the State would step in and if not the State deffenently someone will volunteer to do it within the States.

I can't believe that Saba has no connections to someone that would volunteer to help within the Netherland Atillies. I don't think Saba is thinking out of the box and seeking help when they actually could from the Kingdom or the Kingdoms military where they have people who go in under these types of conditions.

When you say Saba doesn't have the MEANS...that is truly sad. I wonder how many people actually are on the side of their cliffs whose remains were never brought out over the years.

There is a simple way to stop paying to rescue these people - and to put the burden of their safety and rescue back on them, where it belongs:

Climbers are required that they sign a form saying they will reimburse Saba for any and all rescue costs.

1. Climbers insurance will be invented.. That's right - insurance companies will offer climbers insurance - insurance that will reimburse Saba for rescue expenses.

2. Saba will require that climbers show "proof of insurance" before they climb.

If the dogs found a scent 100% and they are sure Joel Gove is on the mountain side, even though it is difficult to reach, why does the family have to be the ones to pay for his recovery instead of Saba? Isn't it Saba's duty for their police and rescue & recovery units to do this job? Isn't that what they are paid for? Please help me to understand this part?

The Saba people know their own lands and terrain better than anyone else. Don't they have trained climbers and rescue units that deal with this sort of thing since they live it every day? People who have grown up there surely have climb the sides of those mountains and hills all their lives? I can't imagine an isle not prepared for this type of resue or recovery of remains in this case.

-A concerned person-

"People who have grown up there surely have climbed the sides of those mountains and hills all their lives?"

The Sabans are not aborigines and they have not spent all their lives climbing the sides of those mountains and hills. The've been working, working as sea captains, building 'The Road', fishing and myriad other occupations. If you have ever been on any sort of vaciation to any destination from Vail, Colorado to New Zealand you should be well aware of the concept of travel insurance to cover any costs associated with illness or accident while on vacation. Joel Gov's disapearance is unfortunate and costly and a large number of people have given their time, money and labor to locate him. Had he suffered an accident while diving one of Saba's Pinnacles he'd be stuck with a bill, had he been injured while sight-seeing in NYC he'd have and emergency room bill to pay, the location and the scale of the accident do not mitigate the assumption of risk. It is unfortunate but the fact is he had an accident while travelling and such accidents can be costly. Saba is not a wealthy island, her people are kind and generous but they are not responsible for paying the unfortunate debt incurred to the estate of Joel Gove.

"Saba is not a wealthy island, her people are kind and generous but they are not responsible for paying the unfortunate debt incurred to the estate of Joel Gove."

Pardon me, but I think Joel Gove has paid the altimate price. And yes, Saba is liable in helping if not retrieving Joel Gove's remains if it is indeed on their lands. A crime could of been committed and until his remains are brought out no one will know for sure. This is something the Police and Officials of Saba needs to take up, NOT the family.

The family of Joel Gove will be paying the expensives of his funeral. No one is asking Saba to do that. Nor are they asking Saba to pay for Joel Goves remains to be shipped back to the States, but Saba should be the ones to retrieve Joel Goves remains, or at least seek help from the Netherlands Antilles officials who are trained for this sort of thing.

I understand Saba is not wealthy, but that does not excuse them from retrieving someones body, especially if they do not know for positive there is a crime committed or not on their isle. That makes it Saba's duty to retrieve and investigate futher after the body is retrieved.

If I went to another country and an accident occurred I would pay for any cost to be treated for injuries and such, that would be my responsibility, just like my travel insurance would cover certain cost, but it does not include search and rescue. That is where the country or isle comes in as their responsibility and duty to those who are in their country or isle.

I'm not in an attempt to argue with you, but I do know that if someone from Saba came to where I live and they went missing or possible death, it would be my countries responsibility to retrieve the remains and investigate further. After that it would be my families responsibility to bring my body home, not the country or isle it occurred on.

Your logic is sound and correct if the situation weren't as cumbersome as the reality of it is. This particular ravine is WAY TOO DANGEROUS for anyone without extensive repelling experience. On top of that, not only do they need repellers.... but they need repellers who are versed in and have ALL the equipment for recovery. I did a whole lot of research on this last week and have spoken with the top canyoneering people in America. From what I gather, being in New Jersey and not totally "in the loop", there are people who repel on Saba but no one who can do this sort of work. Saba simply is not equipped. It's really far more specific then one might imagine. Also, a team has been located and I've heard the process will soon be in motion.
BTW: yes, the dogs have a cadavor scent; not specifically Joel's scent. Yes, it is presumed that this is Joel. No, it is not 100% sure that it is.
I know this wait is so terribly frustrating for us all. Hang in there.
Moongirl

Ok, I understand what you are saying but why not ask the Kingdom for help since they are part of the Netherland Atilles and Dutch Kingdom?

I do not feel it is right or fair to the family of Joel Gove to have to go through this grief to come up with the money to have his remains brought out. It's just wrong on so many levels. So if it takes 4 more months to gain the money his remains deteriate more and more. So sad!

Or wonder if it's not even Joel Gove. Will Saba reimburse Joel Gove family the money in full? I truly don't understand why they have to suffer anymore than they already are and placing the burden of more hardship onto them just seems wrong.

I am not saying Saba is a bad country. I'm not blaming anyone from Saba for his accident. Nor am I saying the people are bad, just feel they could do more resource wise to get Joel Goves remains out off the side of the mountains.

Thanks Moon girl for answering to concerned person.
IIt is amazing that people think these little islands are fully equipped with everything. Not every western country is rich and fully equipped for every emergency response.Saba is rough terrain, this had to be known to Joel when he went hiking. Saba is a small island with very little resources and no budget to keep emergency crew on a pay roll.
It is basically hike at your own risk!
So don't bash Saba and get real, Joel's body will soon be found and if you really care, send a donation to set up a emergency hiking response unit.

A St.Maartener who knows the Saba people.

Thank you for making the news available to us about Jody--can't think of him as Joel, when I've known him since 8th grade as Jody. All of us continue our prayers at home and appreciate the work everyone has done to try to find him. Jody and I caught up with each other in October and he shared many stories about his travel adventures, telling me how he enjoys visiting new and romantic places (even by himself!) and sharing other travel adventures with his daughter. I am not surprised that he went to investigate the beauty of Saba. I wish he had been able to make it home for his loved ones as well as his friends, and that he would have been able to achieve his dream to retire to a mountaintop in Tibet. Please continue to post any news. Thank you all, Kathy D'Huy Johnson

You are welcome and we feel for your loss and uncertainty. Bookmark this page, if anything comes up in our local press we will post it here for you.

Someone posted on another blog site that Joel Gove's body had been found by a Saban local. Is there any truth to this? If so, my thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends.

Note - The poster of this message above is refering to a rather pathetic Hate the Dutch site called arubanboycott.blogspot where an anonymous comment has been posted saying Joel has been found. It has no verifcation and until it does then treat as suspect. We would expect Joel's family and friends who have been coming here for news will be the first to know and will inform us here in their own time if this is the case. There are also readers from Saba and we suspect they will also post a message here too.

Naturally we hope for Joel to be found and for his family and friends to have closure and peace, losing a loved one is never easy. Because the information has no other confirmation please treat it with the caution it deserves.

I am a friend of Joel's and heard a first hand account of the search mission that took place last week. One of Joel's longest and best friends was there and went out on the trails with the Merrill crew every day. He said rumors about discoveries (that didn't happen) swirled around the island at the close of every search day. The Merrill team left the island today -- or they were scheduled to -- and we haven't heard that there was a recovery. The dogs did pinpoint the location where the team felt 100% certain Joel is but because of dense vegetation and the treacherous terrain, they haven't been able to locate him.
MA

Dear Flipper,
I would like to tell the world about Saba, and how caring we are to any walk of life that may hit our shores.

I being from Saba, i was dismayed and shocked when my family heard the news on the 30/12/06 about the missing hiker. Immediatly the search began at all trails, so whom of you out there, that have no clue about Saba, rest assured we are just as worried about Mr.Gove as all you are. Most Saban's know all the trails in and out, we know, where to go, how to get there, when its dangerous from not and we all have this special ability to climb. The same day we heard the search had begun, with expert Saban climbers, hikers, the fire dept and the police helicopter from SXM, that same day the coast guard came in to help and a special K9 unit was brought over to help with the search.

In closing, we know you are worried, upset, dismayed but so is all the Saban community and we all want to have Mr.Gove safe and sound with his family.

Thanks Alan Cheney over in Saba.
I agree with your response that the missing person family should keep an open mind and not start to bash the Saba authorities as Natalee Halloway family did.
Every one knows Saba is a very small island, very lush with greenery, I am sure the search team and the Saba Community did their best.
Saba people are a very concerned bunch of folks, we here on St.Maarten joke that they always know and mind everyone's business. And this attitude will work well with the search team there as the Community is very interested in finding a missing person. I cannot imagine what could have happened to this young man, there is only vegetation there -or unless he hiked to the edge of the hill and somehow fell or slid of the edge.
Saba's hiking trail can be very moist and wet and it is a possibility that he could have fell into a deep hole in the forest or if he got close to the edge into the sea. Whatever the case, Saba is not known for mysterious kidnapping or weird murders, if you ever get to know the Saba community it is one of the best communities that have every person at heart. So I do hope we in St.Maarten and in Saba would not have to endure a unnesseary attack from the very insensitive Nancy Grace and her stupidity.

A St.Maartener who understands the Saba people.

Thank Alan, I was hoping someone from Saba would come and make a comment. Please keep us all informed as you are able.

Flipper

It's not so difficult to put oneself in your position, friends and family of Joel, most of whom are far away, desperately seeking information online. With only one of our local papers online and with only a small selection, I realised when I saw the searches that you would have difficulty finding where the articles are posted here.

(If you go down the right hand side of the site you will find MAIN THREADS, find OUR NEIGHBORS and you will find a page which has a link to Saba.)

I have been following the story and I have to say, I do think the search was scaled back too soon, but then, there is very little information about how long and well planned the search was. Where could he be?

1. He went off trail and injured himself. The island is only 5 sq miles, how intesive were the searches, how well were they planned in regards to all areas being covered, did they use grids and cover them all? The papers do not mention. Every effort should be made to carry out such a complete search to determine if Joel is on the island or not.

2. It is also possible that somehow he was down by the coast, ended up in the sea and was sept off by currents into the Caribbean Sea. I would like to know if this possiblity was included in the search program, how far did they go out searching.

3. Or a crime or kidnapping, involving others. Certainly an unlikely prospect considering it is Saba, but not impossible.

Feel free to use this page to share your thoughts, we will add new clippings as the appear in the papers to the main post above and you and readers in Saba are welcome to add to what we know in comments below.

Our thoughts and wishes are with and for you.

Flipper and the SXM PE crew

You're right, Flipper. It was at least one week before we could read any press about Joel's disappearence, despite endless Google searches, so thank you. Any information that you learn from your friends on Saba and can share is greatly appreciated.

Everyone who knows Joel is stumped, angry, frustrated and sad. Our hearts ache for his family, especially his daughter, with whom he had the most wonderful bond, far exceeding a typical father-daughter relationship.

Keep us posted and we'll do the same!

CO'B

My daughter and Joel's daughter are stepsisters. I would like to personally thank you for all of your reporting. I know the people who live in these tiny islands have extremely warm hearts, and the is exactly why Joel wanted to be there. Fortunately for us, Joel's love and closeness with his daughter extended into my daughter's life. Their most recent trip together was to pick out a Christmas Tree. When we received the news that Joel was missing, she said to me "Mom I hugged him before I left." I said, “I’ll bet that makes you feel really good. You just never know when it will be the last time you get to hug someone." That one hug has given her a world of peace. Thank you again for your kindness.

What is the latest on Joel Gove? Will there be anymore searches or is that it? We are all wondering what happened to him.

I'm sorry, we are running a little behind this week with the news clippings. The article below was in the Daily Herald on Saturday.

Search dogs go home - 27th January 2007

Flipper

First of all I would like to thank everyone who took part in searching for Joel Gove, I myself was wishing the best for him and his family and hoping that they would find him ALIVE.
Some people don't realize how easy their life is, and how they have everything sitting right infront of them waiting for them to just pick it up.
Whereas just about all sabans have to work very hard for what we want in life, so why try to downgrade us. Like you said SABA is a VERY TINY ISLAND, so how can WE SABANS be as advanced as the U.S.A. aren't they the ones that we get most of our products from?
I really don't like how certain people made stupid comments about our TINY ISLAND.
I hope that they get to know our LITTLE LOVELY ISLAND and it's LOVELY PEOPLE that live on it better, and see how WONDERFUL, LOVING, KIND & CARING the people there are.
In closing I would like to say all the best to Joel Gove's Family & I really wish that they come to the bottom of this case.
P.S. ALL THE BEST & GOD BLESS.
Yours truly, THE SWEET SABAN.

I have closed this page, you can continue comments and discussions on the new post about Joel Gove, link below.

SXMPE Blog Post - The search for Joel Gove - 28th February 2007

UpDates will be posted there.