Emilio replies to Henry Brookson - Page II

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Submitted by Flipper on Tue, 2006-08-08 22:14.

Interests
Anonymous (not verified) | Thu, 2006-08-10 23:15

Jadira,

I have all respect for what you and your people are doing. As a matter of fact I am one that is all for preservation of the environment on this island. That we have parks and places to relax, enjoy nature, and where our children can play. I have a three year old child that loves to go on a swing and she has been in the Sint Maarten Park, the Emilio Wilson Park and other places and enjoyed herself.

But it has to be understood, that as long as no measures were taken to stop people from developing the properties that have according to how they wish we shall be in a jam. Talk to Jeroen, and he will tell you that if you zone a property to "environmental" instead of "industrial" or "residential" the government, or better put "we, the people" will have to pay those landowners for their losses. Cause such is the ordinance that rules zoning. Read it please and you shall see.

There is a "Stichting Doen" in the Netherlands that will fund a project like purchasing the EWE property to preserve it for the people. Did anyone ever check it? Probably not. The Dutch Government or one of their organs was prepared to put up money to buy all the hillsides over a certain height so that no development would take place. Did anything ever come of this? Up to now not.

Anyhow, as long as your modus operandi is to be a pressure group... the results will only be temporarily. You could probably delay certain developments but you will certainly not stop them.

That is why I made my comment about the way things are done and the interest of the people on this island in general. You care, but a lot of others don't give two hoots........ including this government that has itself pushed around from left to right vv and front to back vv as far as these matters are concerned.

Got more to say, but need sleep.

Observer1602

Historical Maffia?
Flipper | Wed, 2006-08-09 00:46

Being as I still owe those who helped me set up this site, I'm hesitant to ask for more of their time to fix this little problem of threads getting narrower. Hopefully we can fix it soon, depends on the donations really. So, best thing for me to do is just start another page.

The following is a reply to this comment on the previous page.

The EWE Foundation was set up to find a way to preserve the estate, this includes finding a way to purchase it. This would be a whole lot easier if the government was working towards the same thing, but up until today, as far as I am aware, despite several requests for meetings, the govt has not replied or made contact with the EWEF. There is money out there, if the goverment was comitted to finding a way to purchase and preserve it then it would be found, as it is, a foundation made up of volunteers is doing the best it can. With government support and backing it would not be much of a problem.

As to the 'historical maffia' reference, I have to disagree with you, because this is certainly not the case at all in my view. I'll explain.

First of all, lets take a look at what is preserved on St. Maarten.

Fort Amsterdam:
old to Divi by government back in the 70's, subject of a court case.

The Salt Factory
The poorly funded heritage and monument foundations are working with WI Roads to protect and restore it, before it dissapears under garbage and shanty town shacks.

The Emilio Wilson Park
Well, it only has a 60 year lease and I am curious about what happens after that. I assume the property will return to Emilio's hiers, in which case perhaps it should be included in negotiations to purchase the estate.

erm..... I'm stuck.

OK, there are a few more, the old house in Dutch Quarter, the Vineyard Building, Almond Grove.

Belvedere? The old house is packed away inside containers, also lacking political will and support. Also, I think the deal with that was a lease, not a donation to a foundation, eventually it would become private property again. I could be wrong, I don't know a great deal about that property and project, but I did see the house before it got taken/blown down and whats left of the foundations is starting to crumble.

What else?

You know what, I can't think of much else. The little houses on Front Street slowly disappear, some burn down mysteriously or get donated to the historical foundation, which has no money to do much with it except hopefully preserve it until they do. Did you know that small plot on the boardwalk behind Last Mango is going for something like $1 million or so? I hear Theo is buying property up the other end, in anticipation of phase III of the boardwalk no doubt. Watch those houses disappear in the coming years.

Please let me know if you can think of any more, I want to believe I'm missing something. Also, see if you can find any reference to the government actually preserving anything historal, or environmental for that matter. The only reasons EWE has not been bulldozed already is because enough people who were unhappy about the plans, actually stood up and said so.

No, there is no 'historical maffia', what there is is an increased awareness about how important the island's heritage is and how little is left. The same awareness is growing about the environment too, SXM PE is playing it's part in this process.

In the lastest case, the old house uncovered in Cole Bay, it would be nice if it could be preserved or at least incorporated into whatever is planned there, but at the very minimum they must allow the heritage and monument foundations to excavate, document and remove what they can. This is not unreasonable and would be expected in any country that values it's history, it's a risk any purchaser of a property takes. In the event the monument should be preserved then the owner should be offered adequate compensation.

You might also say there is an 'environmental maffia' or an 'animal welfare maffia', but in a place where there are no laws to protect such things then those that understand the value of them must try to get others to see it too, by putting information out there, in newspapers, radio, school programs or here on the internet. It wasn't so loud before, perhaps thats why it seems loud to you now.

“Whenever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government; that whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights.” - Thomas Jefferson.

Before I go, just a small request, you don't have to log in, but if you put a name on your posts then comments will be easier to follow for others reading. Pick a name, make one up, Moe Joe, Reader 14232, whatever, it would be helpful, there won't be confusion with other anonymouses. :)

I'll tell you what, I think 'political maffia' and 'construction maffia' are a more interesting subject and if there is any 'swindling' going on I don't think it's the poorly funded foundations and volunteers doing it.

Flipper

The things that go on!
Anonymous (not verified) | Wed, 2006-08-09 22:41

Flipper, since you want to know who is posting what I will sign my postings with observer1602 and I would assume that is good enough for you.

Maybe I used the term "maffia" to rashly, but it should be considered that landowners have rights also. The foundations and the people that are with them and are working hard for little pay still would have to realize that there are certain ways of doing things.

For instance, Solomon's Estate, which belongs to the Peters family, was in limbo for close to forty years. The family could not agree on what to do. The finally resolved their issues so that they could carry on.

It seemed kind of strange to see a picture in the newspaper with Mr. Patrick from kadaster standing by some undefined rubble and then having it proclaimed by some people as being historically important. If such is the case, then leave everything the way it is and don't do another thing. Don't build anymore houses, don't start any new businesses, cook on wood and suck salt. Is that what is wanted? Or is that certain armchair-people have decided that everywhere we find a heap of stones we have to proclaim it as a historical find? That really baffles me.

Progress and economic activity have their price. They eat up our resources, as well in finance as in manpower as in land and water. That is a clear choice that has to be made by the powers that be. We could have been a forerunner to Anguilla, where "tings aint going so", but instead we proclaimed the free hand on this island long ago, and every Tom, Dick and Harry could come here and do what they want.And so they did...... the results are clear.

Look at Frontstreet: once a prominent Caribbean street, now a Bombay disaster and concrete jungle. Yes some things are still there, like down street and up town's end, where we have the West Indian Tavern former premises and the Passangrahan. Cole Bay, as the same Mr. Patrick from kadaster could attest to, was a place where 50 years ago it had a few houses where some families lived and so was Cay Bay. Look at it now: an out of control place where down low it is hard to see a piece of green or a place to recreate.

That is a crying shame created by politicians, that had their eyes closed and believed that the almight dollar was all they had to worship. That is why I call this present movement of the environmentalists and conservationists a liltle hypocritical, because some of them people were around on this island for a long time and obviously had their eyes closed.

Things on the French side are done in a much different way. No way you are going to knock down an old building and erect a monstrocity. Marigot still has its Caribbean flavor and so do the districts surrounding, altho some developments resemble Martinique and Guadeloupe, which reflects the European French influence. Still, the French side is a lot prettier, greener and more preserver than the Dutch side.

I strongly think that people on this island have been led by the nose for too long and did not realize IN TIME what was happening. Hence, the way we are now. Development and construction are still rampant, and there is no way that the powers that be can stop most or all of it. That is the nature of things. Development has overtaken government. Greed is even worse than that. People still selling out for the dollar, and people that bought along ago, which we can consider as the Anguillians say as "non-belongers" do not give a hoot about what happens with a propery once they sell it. They count their gains in currency, not in satisfaction with what will happen next.

I do not object to people wanting to preserve things that are truely worthy of preserving on this island, but I feel that it should be done in a proper way. This island should have been zoned ages ago, in stead we are lumped with an interim arrangement , that calls for planning permits, an apparant long and tedious process.

Oh, and Flipper as for monuments. Roy Marlin has been pushed for years to finally establish that list of monuments, that the existing monument ordinance calls for. Any idea why that list still aint there, why the commision has become disfunct? Exactly: bottomline is dollars and that is that.

An Indian bought a place of Frontstreet, where Citco Bank used to be before. The establishment had a wonderful real old tree in front. The Indian cut branches after he bought and reconstructed, started damaging the roots, throwing chemicals on it, and finally ripping the tree out. I agitated against it and realized how futile it was.

Indeed, you are right, we have no laws in place and we do not demand that they are there, and even when they are there, we do not demand that they are implemented. So in closing we are all guilty by reason of complaceny!

You state that the organizations that work are underfunded and badly supported. Is that not saying enough? We can not all look to government to fix things. If we as a people feel strong enough about heritage and beauty then we should also be willing to sacrifice some of what we have to what could be.

I am ready, but it has to be in a sensible way. Making noise and forcing people to do things is not really the way. Consensus about what should happen is far more important because then people could work as ONE to achieve the goals that we would and should set.

Observer1602

SXM PRIDE responds to Observer 1602
Anonymous (not verified) | Thu, 2006-08-10 14:54

First of all, you are contradicting yourself. On the one hand you sound as if you are for preservation of our history and on the other hand you are stating that foundations are taking away peoples land. In no way are any nature and historical foundations trying to take away peoples land!

As for the SXM PRIDE foundation let me inform you as to how the Solomons Estate issue was handled from our side. The old stone structure was discovered, we were all called to the scene 2 weeks ago. At that time the structure was accesible and could be reached through the bushes, as you can see in the picture, the structure could even be climbed.

The foundations went back again last Saturday and found that the excavators had pushed all the mud, dirt and broken branches up on the structure and the structure was now covered and could not be seen anymore. The excavators had been busy the entire week already, we knew that, and last Saturday we decided to try to bring awareness to the old structure before it is lost forever.

You state that Mr. Patrick is standing by some undefined rubble, Guess what? most of our old "monuments" are rubble untill we fix it up and try to bring it ack to life. I took that picture of Mr. Patrick, we have other pictures of the structure as well, however it did cross my mind that people as yourself would just see the rubble. The picture of Mr. Patrick climbing the structure was taken 2 weeks ago, last Saturday it was difficult to take a good picture as the structure is now covered up.

You mention some valid arguments about the lack of zoning by our government and the Monument list. For the record, I know there is a Monument Councel and a Monument foundation, what they do, how far they are with a list, I have no idea. PRIDE foundation tries it best to bring forward any issue we think deserves attention, and in this case, the Salomons Estate old structure deserved attention.

I personally also approached a senior member of Cole Bay and a respected member in the community to help us find the owner of that particular lot, the entire land belongs to the James/Peters family. The foundations DO NOT WANT TO TAKE ANY LAND AWAY from anyone, what was stated in the newspaper was correct, we are asking the owner/developer to consider using the structure as part of any development plans instead of destroying it.

Bringing awareness in the newspaper was also a way to get the developers attention, as many times the developers do not know what the backhoe's / excavators are doing, also the people operating the backhoe's are mostly not from here and like you, would probably see a high pile of well placed rock "rubble" and just destroy it. The thing that gets me is that the same people that say that they respect the environment and history say this when it is other peoples problem, once the problem is theirs, they are the ones saying that the foundations are taking away peoples land.

Another thing is this: Mr. Patrick has been a very valueable source of information for the environmental and heritage groups, he has always helped us out whenever we asked for anything. It was SXM PRIDE foundation and a member of NATURE foundation that brought forward the info about Venus house located at RED POND. Mr. Patrick helped provided us with any historical data he could find.

It is easy to sit behind ones computer and complain about the various foundations, if we do not do anything, we get complaints from people like Observer 1602 saying we did not do enough to protect anything. When we do our job, we get complaints that we are over zealous and trying to block economic growth.

As for the Kenepa tree in front of the former Citco Bank , it was SXM PRIDE foundation that brought this issue to light in the media and offered open debate on the cutting and eventually poisoning of the tree. What is the status of the Salomons Estate old rock structure now?

Well, PRIDE can only do so much, it is now up to Heritage foundations and the Monument council and Monument foundation to investigate and see what they plan to do. it is also up to them to bring it up with EXCO/VROM to see what the plans will be, it is definatly not on any list as far as I heard. Seems that Proffesor Barka that was here for a few years to research all old plantions and monuments kinda missed this one.

Jadira Veen
SXM PRIDE foundation
president

At that time

Waking up
Flipper | Thu, 2006-08-10 10:44

People are waking up to whats going on around them, because of people out there like the Foundations talking it up. Is it too late? I don't think so and I think we should be looking at Anguilla to learn from as much as they look at us.

There is only so much development that can be done before you run out of space. What is happening now with the unchecked rubber stamp developing is changing the whole character of the island. 65% of the workforce not from here? Seriously, thats just plain incompetance from government.

It's a blind headlong rush and it needs to have brakes applied.

Flipper

Times are changing
Hady Nufyet | Wed, 2006-08-09 23:22

I haven't had a chance to get on here much recently, good to come back to an interesting debate.

I don't think any of those foundations or activists are out to deprive anyone of their properties or the rights to develop them without being compensated. St. Maarten's heritage and environment has been decimated and it's only because of those people making noise about it that the public in general is becoming more aware and informed on these issues.

There's some truth in what you say, it's only in recent years that organisations like Pride, Nature Foundation and others have come into the public eye and they did this by raising peoples awareness and interest through hard work, organising clean ups, school presentations and field trips, writing articles and providing information to the media and govt depts (The media pays more attention to it.)

Yes, it's late in the day for our history and environment, but better late than never, we can still save some.

When it comes to Emilio's Estate, the government should get serious about purchasing it and sit down with the EWEF. There is no reason for those mentioned in Emilio's will or others inheriting to lose anything, nor should they.

But you know what, until the bullshit wheeling and dealing that politicians play, like those in the news today, stop, then I think it will be difficult for SXM to progress in any area.

Hady

Now we are getting somewhere
Local Hero | Thu, 2006-08-10 00:38

You know, when people come together and share information and find agreement, then things will get better.

The heritage and the environment should both be issues in the next election, the politicians must be put on the spot and questioned about them, not allowed as the local media often lets them, to spin and wriggle out of giving a solid stance.

The people who are trying to save the Estate so it can become a national park of St. Maarten are not trying to swindle anyone, I'm sure they understand fully that the owners, whomever thay may be will need to be compensated. The government should be working with those people to find a way to make it happen, so far they show no sign of doing so, of doing anything for that matter.

I am informed reliably that Emilio's will does not show that the estate is actually willed to any one person, all it has is really a list of name of people who will get a cash amount, totalling somewhere around 1.8 million nafs if and when the estate is sold.

To add to all this intrigue and scheming, we must also remember that after Emilio died, two people, one from the notary office and one an ex-politician friend of Emilio, went to the US to see Granville. They came back as executors of Emilio's will, but it was only for a week. One week later, Granville apparently changed his mind and appointed the lawyer who has an ownership interest in the home Granville was in, the notary of the home and Mr. Richard Gibson.

What I want to know is, is Edna Diggs in the same home?

One could theorize that once those people in the US found out about the estate, they worked on Granville to change his mind and let them deal with it, Gibson was the token local.

Then there is the mystery of the second will, one that Emilio apparently had ready for several months, he was unable himself to go to the notary so the notary was supposed to go to him, it never happened. What the second will say's I don't know and it probably doesn't have much value legally, but it could be a guide to Emilio's final intentions. I understand that many of the people in the first one are not in the second.

LH

Local Hero on target about second will
Anonymous (not verified) | Thu, 2006-08-10 08:30

Local Hero,

You are correct about Emilio's will. He made the first one in 1999, the one with all the people mentioned for money totalling somewhere around 1.8 million.
Then, he was taken by friends to the Notary in 2001 to change his will.

He made a will with the same Notary, however because he was ill in his last year, he was unable to return to the Notary's office to sign it. He died a few months later. Notary's are supposed to go to the home or location where an ill or old person is for them to sign their documents.

The Notary's clerk never went in all those months. The same Notary clerk is mentioned in the first will, so the story is that he was pissed that Emilio did not mention him in that new will, so he never went to get Emilio's signature.

Boy oh Boy, this Emilio Wilson story, his life, his death, his land, his legacy, his friends, good friends and the friends for land, this story should not only be written, this story would make SXM's first block buster movie! Ian Valz should take a close look at this story, it has all the right elements for a drama, comedy, tragedy, and at the same time a biography.

There seems to be a lot of
Gracie | Fri, 2006-08-11 10:20

There seems to be a lot of debate as to whether Emilio wanted to sell his estate. One person says it was to be sold, another says donated. Am I correct in thinking that Mr Wilson, must of thought the estate would sell if he mentioned a number of people in the will to receive money from the estate? Am I correct in assuming the money would have to come from the sell of the estate, or did Emilio have a large sum of money in the bank to cover the amount to be paid out to the benefactors? An estate is not only land but also money in bank accounts, as well as personal properties, furniture, jewelry, etc... What has happend to all of this stuff?

I still go back to someone needs to be able to read the exact terminology of Emilio and Granviie's will. I also understand this is easier said then done, however, can't someone who is mentioned in the will have a right to review and see the actual will/wills?

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