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Body found in Saba - Joel Gove?
For Joel's Family. What was in the papers today, sadly the DH didn't put it online. If anyone in Saba has more info please post it.
SXM PE Blog Post - The search for Joel Gove - 28th February 2008
More on Joel - SXM PE Blog Post - Joel Gove - Missing hiker in Saba - 11th January 2007
Click here to Read More
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The mummified condition of the body made it impossible to make an unshakable identification, but it could be establish based on documents and clothes that it is Joel. The pathologist concluded that he had become intoxicated by the sulphuric fumes emanating from the abandoned mine.
Daily Herald-DNA SAMPLES TAKEN-9 November 2007
It came on the news this morning on PJD2 Radio "The Other Side" that the body found is indeed that of Joel Gove. The Lt. Governor of Saba (local chief of Police) confirmed it. A pathologist is expected to give a statement. See below:
PATHOLOGIST ARRIVES
I don't mean to bring up a sore subject nor take away anything from the discovery of Joel's body and what that represents to all of us who loved him.....
but:
I have a question that has been haunting me since Amy called to tell me he'd been found NOT in the ravine. Question is: Well then, WHO IS IN THE RAVINE ? All 7 cadaver dogs scented someone there separately from each other. Does this mean no one will care enough to find out who is there now ? Will the Dutch military still do a drill down there as had been talked about when Joel was presumed to be the one in the ditch ? I'm just curious if Saba now considers this a non-issue. I hope not.
M
Your questions are justified. There are a few answers, but the answers don't mean it should be ignored. The dogs very well could have been scenting Joel from the mine. This would be from cracks, the chimney effect, etc. that would carry the scent from the mine and hold it or trap it in the ravine. This all having to do with the way scent carries, etc. I believe the mine was different years ago and the water changed it, making some of it collapse. The air has to escape somewhere under those conditions and this too could lead to the scent carrying to the ravine from the direction that the collapse took place. The wind, temp, and conditions at the time all play into a dogs scent. The discouraging part was that the mine was avoided by dogs because it was told that it had been thoroughly searched by the fireman and gas masks. When the scent was detected, choices have to be made as to where to search and that was already ruled out, leaving the search to rule out other areas. Even with that said, two or three of the search team went into the mine and one dog went in as well. The search team is very trained in scent, especially cadavar scent. There was one day in the ravine that it was reported, not only did the dogs smell cadavar, so did the Saba guide and the search team. This should be looked into as well as the fact that no one seemed to find him in their back in January. It would only take the body a few days to give off the odor of cadavar under those conditions in the mine. Hard to believe people were so close and did not locate him?
As a resident of Saba, My heart goes out to the family members and students of the University. This has sadden our hearts ounce again on a very small island and less than a year two persons gone missing, Please think twice before going out on dives, hikes, or swims ALONE, Always have someone with you until you return, For the one simple reason of Safety. As locals we always have a buddy for these same reasons, so I ask for the near future never be left alone or go alone. This simple matter can save your LIFE, Just trying the send the right message out there.
Thank you,
A concerned resident.
I couldn't understand what I was hearing on Saba, when the reports came they found the remains of Whom they believe is Joel Cove in The Mine? What Are you kidding me, How could this be, than The searchers did NOT do a 100% search, Because than His remains would have been found at the time, this is something that should be taken more serious and more actions! Sorry But It wasnt just locals searching it was officals Involved, so actions should be taken, Ounce agian another person gone missing, And the search was NOT conducted 100% this shoudl tell you something how things are be done in the Caribbean. Hello This should be a wake Call.
I can't believe you state that the searchers in saba did not do a 100% search. well maybe your right, they couldn't access 100% of the land. I don't know if you have been to saba before, but much of it is treachorous where hikers shouldn't even be going. I personally know the guy who organized and searched for joel for weeks and weeks- were you there searching? Probably not. . The drugs found in his hotel room and his lack of responsibility brought others lives in danger while searching for him. Im sorry he is gone- but come on- use some good judgment!
Guys, please stop making remarks about incompetence on Saba etc. with the search for the missing persons.
Lets not forget, remains were found years after 9/11 in buildings adjacent to the world trade center. Wasnt that like the most searched area in the world? And yet they missed bodies in these buildings, so please dont throw disproportionate blame.
Fact is, he was found and now the healing can start for his family.
God bless his soul and may he rest in peace.
Well i guess then THIS ONLY happens in the Caribbean, NEVER In America, no fumbles there, EVER, cuz you think we in the Caribbean don't watch Foxnews or CNN,, ok! Kewl! Wake up Call for US then! Thanks!
We have plenty of fumbles in America and it happens all over the US. The only difference being is that we know we are human and that we do have fumbles. We do watch Fox News and we are very aware that we are imperfect. We do not hold hostility over it.......we simply try to make it better, right, wrong, or indifferent! A wake up call to you would be to know that people want answers and they are not questioning you personally, just you as a whole. How can you make YOUR world a better place. We try to make OUR world a better place for you. Don't spit on us and we won't spit on you......just work with us to find the answers. Look in the mirror when you get up tomorrow and ask yourself "Did I do everything I could for Joel Gove's family?" If you answer yes, then you can sleep well tomorrow night ! That is what we do here. We take what is delt to us and try to make it better. We know that Fox News is not always going to be our way. Not to be mean or sarcastic, but we do have more coming our way on a daily basis whereas you pretty much slide under the wire. You are sheltered from the hatred, diversity, and ignorance we face everyday, to the magnitude we face it. You are small and still very much in control of your environment. Put your hostility aside, help people from away. We are not all bad, we are everyday people from a different place, looking for answers to something that really doesn't add up if everyone is being honest ! How did Joel turn up in the mine? How did he get overlooked? How did the family suffer for almost a year, financially and emotionally, for something that was right there?
Before we get into any blame game lets wait until all the facts are in. As I
followed this story sources from the island both professional and
non-professional was involved. The wife of the missing also used a
professional service from the United states to fly down and they
used a cadaver dog. The Caribbean is made up of many different
countries with a wide and various assortment of resources. You
cannot compare what goes on in the entire Caribbean to what has
happened here. This is a regrettable situation that hopefully we will
learn from and be more careful in the future.
Another article on the missing medical student and the remains from the sulfur mine can be found in today's DH. Only new information is that Joel's ex-wife Amy Gonzales is coming to Saba this weekend, which I can't say many of us welcome. She was pretty hateful when here last, blaming the island and rescue workers for imagined lapses. The DH reports that she has already announced "How could he have been missed?" so I guess she will be full of more advice for our experts. My understanding (unconfirmed) is that firemen had to use respirators to retrieve the body from a totally dark portion of the mine. Perhaps the rescuers surmised that no hiker would have gone unprepared into a totally dark, horribly hot shaft where breathing is difficult. But for the sake of his daughter, we'll put up with Ms. Gonzales and I hope that finding his remains brings some closure and peace to his family.
See here:
Daily Herald-Wife on Saba-Nov 2 2007
Hope this is brings some closure to the family.
I would love to see how you would act if you had a loved one missing in another country. Ms. Gonzales was under the impression that the entire mine was searched. If this was the case, Joel should have been found. Therefore, she has every right to ask these questions. And please...next time, think before you speak.
Your comments are ignorant. We all have to ask How can this be. I can distinctly remember pictures of firemen who supposidely went further than no human could go back in January. Please tell me how it is that they needed firemen this time when regular everyday hickers can suddenly find a body in what you call the darkest deepest part of the mine. These hikers just stumbled back there ???? Ms Gonzales has every right to ask questions. It is ignorant enough that Mr Sorton couldnt even bring himself to make a call himself. It was ignorant enough that it was only by a shear tip that Ms Gonzales got the information in the first place and in fact had to call herself to verify. This was many hours after the body had already been confiscated by the police. Somewhere lies the truth. I can only hope for the familys sake it comes out. Someone is responsible. Ms Gonzales has never given up looking for the answers. I have to only wonder how things would be if the role was reversed. I ask once again, "how could he have been missed". Please stop complaining about who is coming to your island and please answer the question.
Questions shiould be asked about why he was missed, old reports tell us the mines were searched. I don´t mean a witch hunt, but explaintions and certainly appologies to ¡Joels famil are in order here.ç
Flipper
Eleven month of waiting. I had never experienced anything like this before. I never hope to again. Always there was a small chance that Joel might be alive. We waited. We did what we could. We went on with our lives.
Until one has walked in the shoes of the family and close friends who have literally LOST someone, they must not throw stones. Amy Gonzales was only Joel's ex wife to me when this whole thing began. She was Georgia's mom. Though I had met her, I really only knew her through Joel's stories. Since January we have gotton to know each other quite well. I've watched her in action as she has held fund raisers for the search teams. She has gone through all of Joel's many many possessions and sorted them all out for storage for their daughter or for sale or donation. She's dealt with the lawyers, Joel's company and how to resolve that, the lack of a Will (EVERYONE go out NOW and write complete Wills ), how to sell his car, how to pay his bills and how to keep everyone okay. She's had a great circle of support but, more than anyone else, she has been the support to others. She and Joel had shared parenting responsibilities for Georgia and now Amy and G are adjusting to their new schedules and life under just one roof without Joel's great input and his warm home where G had spent half of her time. Yeah, I'm sure she went down to Saba upset about where circumstances about where Joel was found. I haven't spoken to her since her arrival home but I hope that there were answers. She is an impressive, giving, open, fabulous woman who maned this entire epic saga. I, for one, give her kudos a million times over for all she has done in the past eleven months.
Now it's time for us to say our good-byes, to wrap our arms around Georgia, to give thanks to everything Joel brought to our lives, and to sally forth.
Love light's Joel's path. God bless him.
Moongirl
Thank you, Moongirl - this was beautiful. It is, afterall, a real, human story, not just some faceless, intriguing mystery. I am glad he was finally found, but the closure brings with it the end of all hopefulness for even unanticipated miracles. And that is, of course, so very sad.
Saba residents, please breathe a goodbye and a prayer to Joel's spirit for those of us who were unable to travel to your small, beautiful island! I wanted to be there so much myself - to sit and know that he was there, somewhere. Now as this chapter closes, your island holds a special piece of his life story. He was such a special person to so many of us. Please hold his memory dear.
I agree too that the investigation should be reviewed. However, I'm a bit tired of the "armchair commentators" judging both Joel Gove's family as well as how the Island Officials conducted the investigation. I have no idea what it is like to lose someone in a foreign country, so I cannot judge his family's reaction. Secondly, I have not been inside the mines either, and cannot judge the firemen and others who went inside to investigate - but we should keep in mind they risked their own lives too. Mines are dangerous places - the hikers who found the body were lost themselves. Give Joel Gove's family time to heal and I also hope the investigation will be reviewed - although I don't think that will ever stop people from making uninformed and hurtful commentary.
I personally know one of the three men who found the body. I have spoken with him and several others who were there on 31 October.
No fireman from Saba entered the mine to recover the body. Two of the three men, both of them tourists, and a policeman re-entered the mine to recover the body.
It took less than five minutes to get from the opening to the body. It was found approximately 50 meters from the opening.
While I know not what really happened when the firemen searched the mine in late December or early January, in light of what happend on the day of the body's discovery, the claims the firemen made that they searched deep into the mine seem to be suspect.
The firemen claimed early in the search that they had gone 200 meters into the mine (while trailing a rope behind them) and searched all of the passageways. If this were true, it seems that they should have found the body in December.
For goodness sake, don't let your house catch on fire in Saba!
It came on the news this morning on PJD2 Radio "The Other Side" that the body found is indeed that of Joel Gove. The Lt. Governor of Saba (local chief of Police) confirmed it. A pathologist is expected to give a statement. See below:
PATHOLOGIST ARRIVES
Any statement Yet? How did he die? It has been very quiet for days? Why?
The mummified condition of the body made it impossible to make an unshakable identification, but it could be establish based on documents and clothes that it is Joel. The pathologist concluded that he had become intoxicated by the sulphuric fumes emanating from the abandoned mine.
Daily Herald-DNA SAMPLES TAKEN-9 November 2007
I am a resident on Saba and was also very upset at first when Americans were acting as if it was Saba's fault that Joel Gove went missing ! When i heard the news that the body was found in the SULFUR MINE i was shocked and the first thing that came to my mind was how could they MISS HIM, HOW!?? They had oxygen masks so why didn't they find him!! It shouldn't not have been left up to the Firemen alone to search the Mine they should have been accompanied by someone who knows the Mine well like James Johnson.
The Firemen on Saba i am sure most of them never even been to the Mine before this and therefore dont know their way around. Despite this they should have searched every corner of that Mine because that was the main place to search since thats where he was last seen heading.
I am sorry and ashamed about this because the man could have been found way back in January when his body would have still been in good condition. Maybe just maybe he wasnt found because the Firemen did not search the Mine thoroughly!! It took a couple of hikers to get lost in the Mine and find him if it was possible for them to reach to his body WITHOUT masks then it was more than possible for them to have reached it.
So please my fellow Sabans dont say that it was a spot that they thought no hiker would have gone into! IT WAS A SEARCH for goodness sake you have to go in the impossible spots!!!! Thats where Missing People usually POP UP!!!
It has been almost a year since Georgia and I dropped Joel off at the Trenton train station to go on his holiday trip to Saba. I was suprised at how little he was taking, but he said it was an island vacation, less than a week. He was so used to traveling around the world for three weeks at a time - he didn't need much. I asked if he would rent a car and he responded "Saba is the kind of island where it is not necessary to rent a vehicle - if you need a ride, the island people would be more than happy to give you one." He hugged Georgia, and that was the last we saw of him.
He didn't show up on the 30th. I hoped he had missed the plane like he had in Turkey two years before. He didn't show up on the 31st....I called his neighbor. Two hours later, the neighbor showed up at my house.....the police had come to look for a missing person.....our nightmare began.
So it was that three women that cared very much about Joel flew to Saba on New Year's Day to search for him. Only to be brought into a room at the airport to be (essentially) interrogated about Joel. The drugs, the alcohol.....it was one butt of a marijuana cigarette and a bottle of vodka that was nearly full. He was not a drug or alcohol abuser. He was on vacation. Over the next three days, we were brought back to the police station to be questioned again and again. About his habits (yes including his sexual habits). He was made out to be crazy and someone who would commit suicide. He was not that type of person. He was not going to leave his child. He had plans for the future. The police were reacting to "another Natalie Halloway". This was not the same.
He got lost in the mine. Do I blame anyone for that? No! It is a tragedy. Did I believe that the mine had been totally explored by the firemen? That is what I was lead to believe. So we didn't look further. Mike from Brigadoon suggested we look in the mine again. It was not an easy task. It needed experts or........... a few lost hikers. Just like Joel. I do not blame anyone who tried to find Joel. I bless everyone of you who searched and who supported the search. We did the best we could.
I want to say thank you to all of the volunteers who spent so much time looking for Joel. I think we are all frustrated that the mystery might have been ended in December or January. But it is no one's fault. We all tried our best to find him. I commend everyone on the island of Saba for their grit and determination. No one ever blamed the people of Saba for Joel's disappearance. It is a beautiful island with wonderful people.
As my daughter said..."if dad died doing what he enjoyed (hiking, reading, meeting locals) then he died happy." From a 15 year old (who just turned 16) that is an amazing thought.
From Rascal Flatts: "he was running when the sands of time ran out"
Thank you all. Especially moongirl.
Amy, my thoughts and prayers are with you, Georgia, and Joels family as you close in on the one year mark. It is truely a tragedy. I hope that you can get the things you need from the Carribean to bring closure for once and for all in more ways than just recoving the body. You have carried the burden of Joels house, business, etc for the past year. We all know nothing can be done without proper papers and documentation. You have been the strong one to do all of this and still give the answers the best you could to Georgia to help her heal. All while at times being criticized for wanting answers. This has not been easy for you as only you will know and the rest of us could imagine. May this new year get off to a wonderfull start for all of you. You all deserve it.
Below I have inserted the article from the Trentonian about yesterday's Memorial Celebration of Joel's Life. It was lovely. I'm sure he joined us all as we shared our stories with everyone. Both Joel's brothers spoke, good friends, Amy, ... and Georgia gave a very funny slide presentation with her father's great sense of humor which she has inherited.
Thanks, everyone, for all you have done during this saga. I'm so appreciative of the people of Saba and all the teams & friends that came down to help from the States. Amy, during her tearful words yesterday, expressed her fond feelings for the island and the people there who put in so much time and effort .
To Joel: Adieu. I love you.
Moongirl
Monday, January 7, 2008
Uber-adventurer, environmentalist spread to rest ... but the continents await even more
By Sulaiman Abdur-Rahman
TRENTON — Dozens of people packed the Ellarslie museum at Cadwalader Park yesterday to pay their final respects to the late environmentalist Joel D. Gove. Later in the day, his ashes were returned to the Mother Earth he loved so much.
But not all of his ashes. His 16-year-old daughter, Georgia, has been given the task of scattering the rest of her dad’s remains on all seven continents.
“I’m excited, especially to go to Antarctica,” Georgia Gove said after the Ellarslie ceremony. “I think that will be very fun. So I think I’m going to pour them and be like, ‘OK, it’s freezing. We’re gonna get out of here now.’ ”
A resident of Trenton’s Glen Afton neighborhood, Joel Gove, 47, went missing on a leisure trip to the Caribbean isle of Saba in December 2006.
He was found two months ago, dead inside a sulfur mine on the island, in a near-mummified state.
“Joel died doing what what he loved,” said KidsBridge Executive Director Lynne Azarchi, a nonprofit of which Gove was a founding board member. “But honestly, it provides little comfort — until you invert the statement a little bit.
“Because for most of his life, Joel lived doing what he loved. Whether it was hiking on the island of Saba or setting up an office in Trenton as an economic development commitment.”
More than 100 people squeezed in the museum to reflect on and honor Gove’s memory. A PowerPoint presentation was shown to highlight Gove’s love for life and community.
The slideshow featured pictures that ranged from Gove trekking shirtless to him sporting long and cornrow hairstyles. Normally one to keep his hair cut short, the various array of pictures brought smiles to faces and occasional laughter.
Lauri Shea, who dated the environmentalist, said Gove’s sense of humor is what she liked most about him. “We had a picnic once in November at 8 p.m. — now picture that,” she said.
Friends, family, neighbors, co-workers and former classmates of Gove’s were among the attendees.
“He really touched a lot of people,” said Amy Gonzales, Gove’s former wife. “I think more people would’ve been here if they could have been.
“Here I am, his ex-wife. He was a good person. Maybe not the easiest person to live with, but I just think he was really a special person. And this was a very special place for him here, too. We almost got married here.”
“We are Amy’s and George’s neighbors,” said Dave Maynard, 64, who attended with his wife. “Over the last five years we have met Joel, and we decided to come and honor him.
“It’s really great they were able to recover the body,” Maynard added. “It just makes some very nice closure for the family. And that’s what it was all about.”
Many of Georgia’s friends came to show their support, too.
“Georgia is a good friend of mine; I met her dad a couple times,” said Georgia’s friend, Tom. “He seemed like a really nice guy.”
“I’m a close friend of Georgia’s, and I’m coming in support of her. I never actually met Joel,” Scott Samuel said.
“It’s just nice to have everyone around,” Georgia said. “It’s nice to have people that care about you around when something bad happens. It always makes you feel better.”
At the ash-releasing ceremony, Georgia brought the biodegradable package containing her dad’s ashes.
In a kayak on the creek behind his home, she scattered daddy into the water.
And now the rest of the world awaits, because Georgia Gove and Amy Gonzales are Paris-bound to kickstart the intercontinental Joel Gove ash-scattering tour.